The ol philosohies of men mingling with consecration routine

Who loves the Matrix? I know I do, I remember when I watched the first film I rented a VHS copy from riverside market in P-Town and the tape went fubar right as the machines where on the verge of overtaking Neo. I was LIVID, it took me another week before I got to see the ending. In the 2nd act, Neo had a conversation with the Oracle that changed how I see the world, and she made one of the most poignant statements I have heard up to this point. "You've already made the choice Neo, now you are here to understand the it". Understanding choice as it seems, is one of the important principle learned in this thing we called life.

Now on to the meat....In a recent oped in the Salt Lake Tribune Mr. Troy Williams of KRCL radio in Salt Lake City wrote about the economic history of the ancient civilizations of the Book of Mormon. I am not writing to entertain a discussion about the validity of the book, I maintain that it is canonized scripture and is another testament of Jesus Christ and together with the Bible and other modern day revelations represent the complete Word of God. If you would like to know more about it please come to my house and I will promptly teach you and baptize you. (if you are in need of baptism by the correct authority). In the article Mr. Williams makes some interesting claims here is a quick synopsis.

• Mr Williams claims the civilizations were most righteous when they were practicing socialistic principles
• Mr Williams claims that because there were no poor during these instances "suggests a society invested in public infrastructure and welfare for the whole." they were obviously practicing socialism.
  
• Mr Williams suggests that "Early Mormon leaders advocated a United Order to redistribute wealth for the benefit of all Saints."
  

Wow Troy is some kind of anthropologists, I find it pretty incredible he was able to determine the socio-economic environment of these ancient American civilization. Which begs to question, why is the Salt Lake Tribune allowing this individual commentary upon a subject that he has little or no credentials to back up his claims. Unless ancient American socio-economic policies was his minor.

The Fact remains that Mr Williams, has absolutely no clue whether or not socialism was actually practiced. Further more he has very little evidence aside from some obscure passages that reflect the righteousness of the people rather than their economic environment. The fact is Mr. Williams doesn't know, and I don't pretend to know for that matter.

Now its easy to look at socialism and say, hey that's not a bad idea, lets share with everyone. I agree its a great idea, here is the problem, sharing isn't socialism. The problem I find is most people don't understand the actual differences between the three economic "isms". I find most of them haven't take a business or economics course or didn't pay close attention. Here are the fundamental differences

Communism: The government runs, and controls everything, very little personal freedom, all property and (here is the kicker) all of the MEANS OF PRODUCTION are owned by the state. Sounds peachy huh :)
Socialism: A milder form of communism personal property can be owned and controlled by individuals, but all of the (here it is again) MEANS OF PRODUCTION are owned by the state. Most services are provided by the government, there are private companies but they are generally heavily taxed and regulated, each socialist country has their own spin.
Capitalism: Free market enterprise (pretty simple) There is no limit to what a person can own.

Mr Williams claims that the benevolent act of redistributing wealth is the answer to all of our problems just like the ancient societies of the Book of Mormon did. Except their is one problem, it never says "and it came to pass they all received equal assistance according to their need". First the Book of Mormon wasn't written to tell us what political party to join or what economic system is best. The Book or Mormon is designed to draw men closer to Christ, that is it. Nothing fancy, pure and simple, so when ever someone uses it to prove either side of the political argument I gotta put on the brakes, and say....keep your opinions to your self, you or I haven't any exact knowledge on the hows and whys. He makes an argument that some how LDS members who follow a conservative ideology are some how at odds with its teachings and are evil greedy capitalist money grubbers. (ok that's extreme but give me some artistic license for entertainment value). He uses several prominent members who are very wealthy as examples.

So let me sum this up with one simple question, is it better to choose or to be forced? I believe that question was asked at a very important meeting at a very important council in a place we all came from. "Here am I send me" I will make all of them come back, they will be obedient and none will be lost. Or, lets give them agency, let man choose their destiny and we will provide away for them to return home. Hopefully Mr Williams understands what all that means (if you're lost consult your local Mormon Missionary) I wouldn't be surprised if he hasn't thought of it in those terms.

In essence socialism is less about helping the impoverished and more about control. There are reasons America is the most prosperous land that has ever existed. Its citizen's can exercise their own freedoms. If we allow more and more aspects of our lives to come under the control of a select few, then we have will be lead to communism by a flaxen cord.

If you wonder what modern day prophets have said on the matter here is a link to a talk given by Presiden Ezra Taft Benson about the evils of socialism and communism. He mentions an interesting conversation with Krustev the Russian President at the time. He said "we will feed you socialism a bit a time". During this time support of anything resembling communism was basically treason. Oh how times have changed. In fact the First Presidency at the time issued a warning that it was not the United Order discussed in the Doctrine and Covenants. Mr Williams doesn't understand what the differences are between the Law of Concentration and Socialism/Communism. It comes down to two factors, under the United Order (the Law of Consecration) a person still retains the ownership of their property and they CHOOSE to participate. Pretty cut and dry, it comes down to choice, forcing someone to participate is evil, allowing them the choice, well that's pure Christianity in my book.

http://speeches.byu.edu/reader/reader.php?id=6162&x=51&y=8

"The Book or Mormon is the most correct book that has ever been written" because it teaches a man HOW to choose. And if the right choice is made there will be "no poor among them".


Couple of questions: How do we know that reason there was "no poor among them" is because the inhabitants were very industrious and all worked hard for their own pay?

If the United Order is socialism, then why does President Benson call socialism evil?

When will liberals finally get a clue? (j/k I know a few who have a clue they just haven't chosen to understand the clue)

Parting Shot: Most Book of Mormon historians (people who do it for a living not radio producers) maintain that the economic system of the ancient peoples of the Book or Mormon were very capitalistic in nature. I'll let you do the research Mr. Williams you need practice.

We Don't have Kids.....

We get asked all the time, "So when are you having kids"

The canned response is...we're trying and then we get the proverbial "oh" and a look of pity from the person asking.

Here are the top ten things I wish I could say to those people, as I am tiring of my standard response.

10. Oh, we want to but, I'm allergic to child dander.
9. Kids are just aliens sent to us from outer space, and i don't believe in illegal immigration.
8. I accidentally shot the stork, he looked like a pheasant to me
7. We are waiting until human cloning is legal, the world definitely needs more Jay's
6. My penis fell off
5. We are waiting until we get a little older, we are hoping to have that awkward moment where one of our kids friends ask us, "oh are you Jay Jr's Grandparents?"
4. I'm a liberal
3. Well since you ask, We are both gay, but we wanted to be the first legal gay marriage.
2. We have spirit children
1. Oh we just had a little girl, we named her Nunya.....Nunya Damn Business


Keep your dumb questions to yourself...Next time I get asked by a ditzy member of the relief society I'm gonna say...."Oh you're glowing, when are you due?"

RE:Repealing Gravity

Pete Davis and I have know each other for better than 20 years, I won't spend much time introducing him as does it very well himself later in this post. Pete sent me a point by point response to my earlier post. I thought he had some interesting points and information and I thought I would share it with any of who might be interested. One thing I will say to kick this off is that Pete is one of the friends that I refer to when I say, "I have gay friends". Pets is a great guy, he does great work, and when he has something to say I typically pay attention.

So with out further adieu here's Pete.......................


Hi Jay, You said a lot here so I am going to address it bit by bit. . .

Mormons don't hate gay people, just in case you were wondering. If you wanna talk about being privy to being hated, there have been a few Mormons who have been hated, beaten, and murdered. So in essence Mormons understand the hatred gays face. For some reason, and I don't know why, I haven't seen anyone just say what we are all thinking, since I am famous for that, here it goes.

I don’t think Mormons hate gays at all. I think the religion disagrees with gay folks, but you say that yourself later on. I do not at all deny the bloody history of the Mormon church. Without a doubt you folks have endured a lot of hate that still continues today.

Ok gays here's the scoop, we don't hate you, we don't hate at all, we just disagree with you. In our view homosexuality is a sin, but no different of a sin than fornication, adultery, or even drugs or alcohol or salacious gossip. I have sinned, many times, and will continue to do so as I don't expect perfection here in this life. Now here is where I can try to convince you that you can over come any sin through the power of Christ, but that's not want I want to say today.

I understand that you view same sex relationships as a sin because of your religious persuasion. Love the sinner hate the sin. I think that a lot of Mormons have this attitude (if I am wrong please correct me). I understand about overcoming sin through the power of Christ yadda, yadda, yadda.

Whether or not Gay marriage will destroy the fabric of the traditional family remains to be seen. Personally I don't believe any power on earth or heaven can do that, but everyone has their opinion. Here is why we don't want to see homosexuality become a normalcy. It scares the crap out off us, how do we explain that to our children, we don't want our kids seeing it as a normal thing because we don't want our kids doing it. It is pretty basic, for the same reason I don't want my son or daughter to drink, do drugs, or have sex before marriage. I hope to keep my kids as sin free as I can. But at the same time I recognize they will commit sin, if not one, but all of those I mentioned. I won't hate them for that, hopefully I can be supportive and help them to be stronger, but I could never stop loving them.

I can understand the fact that gay people scare you. Chances are (taking a guess here so I could be totally wrong), a lot of your views about homosexuality comes from clips of gay pride parades or radical queers in chaps and leather vests. Without a doubt people like this are part of the gay community. However, to judge gay folks from what you see on gay pride clips or in movies is only a caricature of the community. It would be like me judging straight people from Mardi Gras clips. I invite you to come and visit my husband and me any time. I promise you that what you will find is a pretty boring household. We hardly ever drink (maybe one beer every 4 months IF we are lucky). We actually watch a lot of TV, hang out with family members and work (I am a child therapist and he is a software engineer).

We are going through the adoption process to adopt a special needs kiddo from foster care. Most likely the kid will have been abused (probably sexually and physically), have multiple trauma and is almost unadoptable in the eyes of the state system. These kids will grow up in a stable household with two men and tons of extended family and friends that are like family (and of course tons of love). Our kid will be in classes with kids from all types of families (including families like yours). Inevitably our kid will interact with others and they will find out that he has two dads.

If he were to interact with your kids, how would you handle that interaction?

So I guess I should say, its not you, its us, but I'm not an apologetic I agree with the leaders of the church. I'm supportive of banning gay marriage, for the reasons noted above. But to tell me I hate, as a result of my position, well I can say the same of you. You are in opposition to my beliefs and of my lifestyle so you must hate me right? I know better, folks try to use that word hate to try and vilanize the stance of their opposition.

I understand you want to ban gay marriage. I disagree with it. I think it is bigoted, but I don’t think you are bigoted. Our thoughts are only a small part of who we are (I think some of the thoughts that I have are bigoted, so don’t take it personally). We have known each other for a long while and I know you are a kind person with a good soul. Throughout our lives I am sure we will disagree on a plethora of issues. We will be passionate, we will be angry, but that’s okay, because that is how life is.


Recently in LDS general conference, Boyd K Packer said in reference to the legalization of gay marriage, "Do you think a vote to repeal the law of gravity would do any good?". That's a good question, homosexuality is contrary to nature, it's fairly clear, we are the only species on planet earth that engages in it. But tell me, why is that a hateful statement? Elder Packer is reaffirming our belief system. Are Mormons out side of their inalienable rights to believe that homosexuality is a sin? I wonder why gays and other special interest groups aren't coming to the defense of those who drink alcohol or smoke cigarettes or shop on Sunday, claiming we oppress them as a result of our effort to maintain the type of society we feel is appropriate. You have the right to be gay, I have the right to be Mormon, it is why America rocks.

Does the Mormon church oppress? Yes. Do all churches or institutions of power in some way oppress? Yes. You are totally within your rights to disagree with gay marriage. I am totally within my rights to be against you. However, it is important to realize that with any opinion comes responsibility and consequences. If the Mormon church disagrees with homosexuality and because of that a young man is excommunicated and then commits suicide because he feels ostracized from the church, the church or the people in the church closest to that person need to recognize that their beliefs played a part in that suicide. It is a lot to handle, but with strong beliefs also come the consequences of those beliefs (both good and bad). I am not sure where you get the idea that homosexuality doesn’t exist in the animal kingdom. There have been thousands of documented cases of homosexuality among animals.

If this gets you angry then you are human, and we have something in common, I would ask the gay community, have you ever stepped back and looked at it from our point of view? Your mad that we say it's a sin because it makes you feel bad, I get it, no one wants to have their life style demonized by others. But have you have been called a devil worshiper? Have you ever had someone sick a dog on you, I know there are gays that experience that, but guess what so do we. Ya go be a Mormon missionary and you'll experience real hatred. And all I was trying to do is help people live cleaner lives, with out immorality, drugs and alcohol. Is that a bad thing? Do you hate me for that?

I have definitely looked through things from your perspective. I am fine with you saying it is a sin. It really doesn’t make me feel bad. You folks can disagree with how I live my life all you want. You can protest and fight against gay marriage and I will fight for it. I make it a point to attack beliefs and not people. I can call your ideas archaic and bigoted and yet still like you. Just as you hold me responsible for my actions and beliefs, I will hold you responsible for yours. I will most likely be extreme, loud and militant and you are more than welcomed to do that too. That is what makes America wonderful.

Pot here's your kettle, guess what its black~

BTW: Mormons are just one major religion that fervently opposes gay marriage, interesting how we take most of the heat. Any reason the gays aren't coming after the Catholics, Evangelical, or Baptists? Just curious

Like I said, with all morals comes taking responsibility for those morals. You have a good question, why are we going after the Mormon church? Truthfully, I would guess it is because it is partly luck of the draw and partly because someone found out that the Mormon church had a strong campaign going against prop 8.

BTW2: One last thought then I'm done I promise, in the Prop 8 vote, didn't 83% of African Americans vote against gay marriage? So why are you letting them of the hook? Or is it just cooler to bash the Mormons, and slightly dangerous to bash African Americans. I'm just sayin

Truthfully, I think we are going after the Mormons because of all the money that the church member put in against Prop 8. Maybe we will go after the African Americans next. Who knows?

Repealing Gravity

Mormons don't hate gay people, just in case you were wondering. If you wanna talk about being privy to being hated, there have been a few Mormons who have been hated, beaten, and murdered. So in essence Mormons understand the hatred gays face. For some reason, and I don't know why, I haven't seen anyone just say what we are all thinking, since I am famous for that, here it goes.

Ok gays here's the scoop, we don't hate you, we don't hate at all, we just disagree with you. In our view homosexuality is a sin, but no different of a sin than fornication, adultery, or even drugs or alcohol or salacious gossip. I have sinned, many times, and will continue to do so as I don't expect perfection here in this life. Now here is where I can try to convince you that you can over come any sin through the power of Christ, but that's not want I want to say today.

Whether or not Gay marriage will destroy the fabric of the traditional family remains to be seen. Personally I don't believe any power on earth or heaven can do that, but everyone has their opinion. Here is why we don't want to see homosexuality become a normalcy. It scares the crap out off us, how do we explain that to our children, we don't want our kids seeing it as a normal thing because we don't want our kids doing it. It is pretty basic, for the same reason I don't want my son or daughter to drink, do drugs, or have sex before marriage. I hope to keep my kids as sin free as I can. But at the same time I recognize they will commit sin, if not one, but all of those I mentioned. I won't hate them for that, hopefully I can be supportive and help them to be stronger, but I could never stop loving them.

So I guess I should say, its not you, its us, but I'm not an apologetic I agree with the leaders of the church. I'm supportive of banning gay marriage, for the reasons noted above. But to tell me I hate, as a result of my position, well I can say the same of you. You are in opposition to my beliefs and of my lifestyle so you must hate me right? I know better, folks try to use that word hate to try and vilanize the stance of their opposition.

Recently in LDS general conference, Boyd K Packer said in reference to the legalization of gay marriage, "Do you think a vote to repeal the law of gravity would do any good?". That's a good question, homosexuality is contrary to nature, it's fairly clear, we are the only species on planet earth that engages in it. But tell me, why is that a hateful statement? Elder Packer is reaffirming our belief system. Are Mormons out side of their inalienable rights to believe that homosexuality is a sin? I wonder why gays and other special interest groups aren't coming to the defense of those who drink alcohol or smoke cigarettes or shop on Sunday, claiming we oppress them as a result of our effort to maintain the type of society we feel is appropriate. You have the right to be gay, I have the right to be Mormon, it is why America rocks.

If this gets you angry then you are human, and we have something in common, I would ask the gay community, have you ever stepped back and looked at it from our point of view? Your mad that we say it's a sin because it makes you feel bad, I get it, no one wants to have their life style demonized by others. But have you have been called a devil worshiper? Have you ever had someone sick a dog on you, I know there are gays that experience that, but guess what so do we. Ya go be a Mormon missionary and you'll experience real hatred. And all I was trying to do is help people live cleaner lives, with out immorality, drugs and alcohol. Is that a bad thing? Do you hate me for that?

Pot here's your kettle, guess what its black~

BTW: Mormons are just one major religion that fervently opposes gay marriage, interesting how we take most of the heat. Any reason the gays aren't coming after the Catholics, Evangelical, or Baptists? Just curious

BTW2: One last thought then I'm done I promise, in the Prop 8 vote, didn't 83% of African Americans vote against gay marriage? So why are you letting them of the hook? Or is it just cooler to bash the Mormons, and slightly dangerous to bash African Americans. I'm just sayin

Fathers Under Attack

One father is worth more than a thousand schoolmasters

~George Hurbert

Fathers, the back bone of our civilization. From the dawn of time they have been the leaders, the protectors and the providers. Dr. Laura Schlesinger said that "Society today has almost removed the importance of the father’s role in the family. The women's liberalist movement that started in the 1960's was the first attack on the traditional family, principles of the movement held true that women were equal in intelligence and ability to men, but they were misguided in encouraging women to abandon their families and look down on the role a father plays in the home.

In our day the role of fathers are skewed and undefined. On television there are few, if any solid examples of a father or husband. A man who is honest, courageous, and mentally strong to bear the burdens of his family. A man who respects women and their role, treats his children with love and fairness, works hard and provides for his family. Instills the importants of education, sacrifice, and self reliance. It is interesting to note that some of the poorest examples of the fathers in pop culture are generally white, middle aged, perverted, un-kept, flabby bumbling oafs who have little honor, or self respect. Who is standing up for the good men of our society, who is cursing the horrid examples displayed in the media? Who is crying foul that White men are being stereotyped as beer drinking racist bums who fail their families? I guess I am, while I have small voice hopefully it will carry this message. Real men love their families, care for them, provide for them. They put the interests of their families first, teach their children correct principles, and love their wives with complete fidelity. Real men are men of integrity and prudence. Real men are crucial to society and we need to teach our sons and daughters what a real man is. So our sons can become them, and our daughters will choose them.

From the Daily Column

I found this article from a blog called The Daily Column, I would have simply posted the link, but I didn't really think the other content was appropriate to display on my blog, (it wasn't horrible but I wouldn't let my kids read some of the stuff) but I really like what he said,

"Something is bothering me ...and you know what that means ?!?@!The other day a "Blue Ribbon" panel met in New Jersey. Blue Ribbon! I know what you're saying, Blue Ribbon? That must be good. Well not in this case.A blue ribbon panel met in New Jersey the other day and they suggested that New Jersey give illegal immigrants in-state tuition. They also suggested New Jersey give illegals drivers licenses. Governor John Corzine disagreed with the drivers licenses but he did think that New Jersey should give illegals in-state tuition.Let me explain to you what in-state tuition is. If you're a kid and you live in New Jersey and you want to go to college in New Jersey you pay less than lets say a kid from Nebraska who wants to go to college in New Jersey. If you're a kid and you lives in New Jersey and you want to go to college in New Jersey you pay about $100 a credit. But, if you're a kid who lives in Nebraska and you want to go to college in New Jersey you will pay about $500 a credit.So what New Jersey wants to do is, if you're an illegal immigrant, someone who's not even supposed to be in this country and you live in New Jersey and you want to go to college in New Jersey it will cost you $100 a credit. But if you're a kid who lives in Nebraska. A kid who was born in this country. A kid whose parents pay taxes in this country. A kid whose parents have supported this country their whole freaking lives and YOU want to go to college in New Jersey. It will cost you $500 a credit.Are you kidding me?! We should take the blue ribbon and rap it around that panels neck. It's amazing, everybody is trying to become a citizen in this country. Everybody wants to be a citizen in this country. I wanna know where I fill out the freaking paperwork to become an illegal immigrant in this country. Because they're the ones who are getting all the benefits in this country. You wanna give in-state tuition to illegal immigrants? HELLO! HELLO!! They're not even supposed to be freaking in-state!Please wake up and take care of our people first before people that aren't even supposed to be here at all !!!!!!! "

I can't believe this! What has happened to the people in this country!

It's So Democratic

Obama is really holding up to his end of the deal isn't he. With his 10 dollar a week tax credit, it sounds like the average working man is really going to get a lift. I remember back when the campaign was really heating up, there was a big controversy over who's tax plan was going to be better for the average American. Obama put out a plan that on paper was better than McCain's. Now don't get me wrong, I am no fan of McCain, I don't know if he would have done any better than Obama when it comes to the economy, but here is where the bear does his thing in the woods. Aren't democrats supposed to be redistributing wealth? I thought Obama was going to tax the rich and the corporations and give that money to the poor. Obama and the democraps have gone and given our grandchildren's future taxes to those evil corporations that he has gone at great lengths to vilanize. So let me get this straight, the new democratic regime means to, give big money to big business, and a little smidgen to the lower class! WAKE UP PEOPLE! This man has been lying to all of you from day one and it continues to get worse!

So as a pro business Republican I should be pumped right? I should be hailing Obama for holding up the evil corporations and giving a few crusts of bread to the lower class. But I'm not because republicans aren't pro business, we are pro fiscal responsibility and we are pro freedom and we are pro small government. Ronald Reagan said that the scariest phrase in the english language was, "I'm from the government and I'm here to help". When are people going to wake up and recognize that their freedoms are on the line here. The more the federal government extends themselves into our lives the more reason we have to fear them. We haven't faced the worst of it yet, the poop is going to hit the fan. So get out your bibles and your guns, your gonna need them. So to those of you who sold this country for 10 dollars a week, I hope some how you pull your heads out, get a job and go to work to help the rest of us get out of this mess.